Before reading I need to express very adamantly that I am in no way affiliated with the Stockton Fire Department, The Stockton Fire Fighters union or any other organization involved with the fire department. My comments are my own, and should in no way reflect any organization representing the Stockton Fire Department. My only tie is by family with whom my Father, Grandfather, Aunt and Uncle have all served in the Stockton Fire Department.
Back in the fall of 2008 our cities, counties, states and country were right in the heart of the greatest economic downturn since the great depression. When something like this comes along sacrifices, tough decisions and hard times are unavoidable. This was perfectly apparent to the Stockton Fire department who stepped up in December of 2008 VOLUNTEERING to make concessions to help with the difficult times ahead. They did this to help the city of Stockton, and to help avoid losing any firefighters or firehouses.
How do you repay something like this? I would assume with great appreciation and protection for the Stockton Fire Department. You my friend, would be wrong, just like me…
Right now as I write this article the City of Stockton (encompassing the Mayor, City manager, City Council) is trying to cut firefighter staffing at firehouses by over 23%. If they were to get away with this negligent trash, it would put staffing for the fire department below staffing levels they maintained in 1980. In 1980 Stockton’s population was 148,000. Today Stockton’s population is 290,000. Simple fundamental firefighting techniques involve systems like 2-in, 2-out. Two firefighters fighting the blaze outside, and 2 fighting it inside allowing for back up, assistance, and protection. These cuts would compromise basic firefighting fundamentals and protections.
After volunteering concessions in the fall of 2008, before any requests for financial assistance were made by the city of Stockton, the city came back to the firefighters and said “Ok, well we need you to give concessions now.” To which the firefighters union basically realized, the city hadn’t FORCED concessions yet, so the volunteer sacrifices meant nothing. Those first concessions weren’t forced, so when making the rounds to fix the huge debt that the morons in the government screwed up in the first place… they pounced on the fire department again.
The fire department recognized their generous mistake and in turn had the new and SECOND concessions placed into a contract guaranteeing that the city would not lay off firefighters or close firehouses. Laying off firefighters or closing firehouses would make the job exponentially more perilous and less secure for citizens.
Different politicians, journalists and general idiots who have no idea what they are taking about have been blabbering about an 8.5% pay increase. Well guess what? That 8.5% pay increase is a raise that the Fire Department has deferred for the past 3 years. They did that to help the city of Stockton. For 3 years, up until May of 2010 the Stockton Fire Department had put up $13 million in concessions. All the while, other groups including city administrative managers, and police officers had pay increases during this same time.
Moronic journalists, ungrateful citizens, and politicians have manipulated thousands of people into thinking the fire department is over paid, or over staffed. To that, I say fuck you. That’s right, plain and simple… you are idiotic scum. Keep talking while you go on doing a job that doesn’t require you to risk your life EVERY SINGLE work day. Firefighters risk their lives every time they go to work, and its not when it’s a family member on the line, or a close personal friend, or the President of the United States. It could be a homeless person that everyone else could care less about, a single mother of 4, a politician that voted against every proposition for firefighters. It doesn’t matter. These firefighters do a job that protects everyone despite any attributes they may have.
So you want to lay them off? Shut down more firehouses? To anyone who feels that way, I despise you. I hate your guts. Some dipshit journalist, or idiotic citizen hears “raise” and you might as well have threatened their life. They spew their hate and moronic ramblings like a virus to everyone around them. You want to decrease the number of noble, brave, honest working people that risk their lives every work day to protect you and your property?
Despite the personal characteristics of a firefighter, how does someone justify laying off even one firefighter? Justify it to me. PLEASE.
The city wants to cut retirement benefits, along with layoffs… Does anyone know, on average, how long these men and women live after retirement? Do you?? Do you know most firefighters are forced into retirement because of a permanent disability coming from the job? And the city wants to cut retirement? It disgusts me on so many levels I cant even describe it in text.
More than risking life and limb at work every day, Stockton Firefighters beat out thousands of applicants every hiring period to receive some of the best training in the world. They are the best at what they do, and they risk not coming home to their spouse and children every time they go on a call. The Stockton Fire Department was made a class 1 fire department in 1971 and has remained there. To give you an idea, a class 1 fire department is a recognition bestowed on less than 1% of fire departments in the country. Class 1 fire departments show the highest in protection of life and property. Along with these impressive accolades, the Stockton fire departments receives more emergency calls than most other cities in all of California. The department is already over worked, and stretched thin.
So even after realizing what Ive told you, you might still be willing to say this is the worst economic collapse in your lifetime and maybe the fire department needs to concede even more than they already have. I honestly cant be as passionate in my argument towards that, and neither can the Stockton Fire Department. Yet the tactics used by the Cities officials are despicable. After a contract was made official between the firefighters and the city through 2012 the city resorted to voting in a “financial emergency” which opens the contract agreed upon. So a signed and official contract was broken by the city government with a simple city council vote. May I remind you, this contract was made after concessions to protect their brethren. So for a 3rd time the Stockton Fire Department has offered a 5.7 million dollar concession which is the largest concession of any employee group in the city. To give you scope of this, you need to realize the fire department is barely half the size of the police department. Also, this 5.7 million concession that has been offered brings the fire departments total concessions to over 18 million, which is almost 6 times the total amount the police department has conceded in the same time.
When you cut right to the chase of the problems, the city of Stockton has created this money problem themselves with wasteful spending. Remember that 8.5% deferred raise 3 years ago? You know that new baseball park built off Holman road? Guess what funded it. Know what else? Stockton has 32.9 million dollars that was located by an independent audit group that the police, fire, and city hall agreed upon to locate monies. Hary Rose & Associates located this money, and since then the city has declined to comment on the money. This audit is available for you to read. Feel free to take a look.
http://www.stocktonfirefacts.com/phase1.pdf
The Stockton Fire Department is not the reason for the cities budget problems, and should not be held directly responsible. Do you see any other public sector jobs offering up concessions voluntarily!? NO. There are other options that are being ignored and good people are going to lose their jobs they fought hard to gain.
If you feel as strongly as I do please feel free to contact the Mayor & City Council directly. Their phone numbers and e-mail addresses can be found here: http://www.stocktongov.com/citycouncil/index.cfm
If your not willing to help the bravest of public servants when they need you, how guilty will you feel when they pull you out of a car wreck, or a burning building? If your too lazy or too ignorant to help then do the tiniest thing, and shut your mouth about laying off firefighters. Hearing people compare the wages or concessions of those in the restaurant, hospitality, retail, and other “private sector” industries to those in a firefighter position make me sick. The economy is in rough shape, and everyone is suffering through it. I agree everyone is making sacrifices and the Stockton Fire Department has made theres.
So, the firefighters have made all these concessions. You even mention the police making concessions. What about the politicians, did they do anything or are they just being the usual greedy jerks that they often are? It’s really a messed up world when people that risk their lives for others on a daily basis take some of the lower priorities in our society.
Jeez. Its just criminal what theyre doing to the firefighters. Why do the volunteer concessions mean nothing? I dont understand that. Not just on a decent person level, but as financial too. Why are the city council members attacking firefighters!? dont people get some kind of vote?
Can we vote to cut all politicians salaries by 10%? firefighters are living heros and Im really sorry for them that its come this far and theyve done all those things to the department.
Good luck boys
Fix our streets, our parks and sidewalks and let the firefighters take their licks like the rest of the city residents have had to. I believe they are not team players for the best interest in Stockton but the reason the city can’t get repairs done. Oh wait, most of them don’t live in Stockton!
Somehow over the past year or so firefighters are all of a sudden the bad guys, the greedy money hungry people who only care about themselves, right?? The average lifespan of a firefighter is 5-7 years after retirement, so, while they make this money they are giving away years of their life, until everyone else is willing to take the oath and give away there life for blue collar wages then, stop complaining, and stop blaming the firefighters.
Hey Margie, you fucking idiot THEY HAVE TAKEN THEIR LICKS. They are even willing to take more licks to help save other firefighters jobs and retain their basic firefighting abilities. THEY OFFERED MORE THAN EVERY OTHER PUBLIC EMPLOYEE GROUP!!!!! Shut your stupid fucking mouth, and maybe get up off you fat, stupid, lazy ass and go see what these guys do every day you fucking bitch. Want to clean up a dead babies brains with a fucking shovel for your 5 o clock responsibilities? Want to risk your life every day? Huh!? Fuck you you stupid sack of shit.
Great story, great research, great opinions, great writing.
Thanks
Pops
It’s time for stockton to come back to reality. SFD is no longer a class one city, and the 2 in 2 out rule is great but look at some of the other city that have gone away from it. Response time are close enough that you can go 3 man engines. I am for the cut back, I feel we need more law enforcement. I am not a cop or a firefighter, but I do work with both in this city. Now Stockton is lossing some great guys, but less then 30. But what about the 100+ PD officers over the last two yeah who work the deadliest job in Stockton..
Sorry for your misinformation AJ. The City of Stockton Fire Department DID retain its Class 1 rating by the ISO last year. The SFD was scrutinized for over two years by the rating organization and even in these trying times the SFD retained it’s rating.
2 in 2 out is not a FAD or a choice by a city. It is the law. Firefighters cannot enter a burning building until there are 4 firefighters at the scene. This means that an engine company with 3 persons, as you suggest, by law has to wait until a 4th person shows up. Sometimes this can mean a delay of several minutes. AJ do you know what happens to a fire in a minute? it doubles in size. The fire growth is exponential.
The NFPA (The bible of the fire service) recommends 4 person staffing on an engine as a MINIMUM. Any paid professional firefighter would agree.
So in closing AJ, put your mall security guard uniform back on, get to work and dream of the day when you may become a real police officer for the City of Stockton.
Jack, did you work in Stockton fire, everyone know that every one a fire can double it’s size, and mall cop no. I do have my firefighter 1 and 2. I have worked both cal fire and city departments.. I also am a medic.. Jack I’m not hating on anyone. But if Stockton retained it’s ranking of class one why doesn’t everyone know besides the department. Why does Stockton need a brand new million dollar heavy rescue rig(that no one can drive or operate yet). So yes you do have your points California and NFPA want 2in 2out… We are going to have to deal with. I know it sucks but.
Thanks for the information AJ, but again you are incorrect. SFD has 15 personnel with a Class A drivers license. They have plenty of drivers for the haz mat rig. That argument is mute. I am sorry every day folks like yourself dont know that the SFD has retained its class one rating for at least another decade, blame the local media. Trust me AJ, when you are out and about in your ambulance talk to other fire departments and see what they have to say about the Stockton Fire Department. Based on my 30+ years of firefighting experience you will find that the SFD is ONE OF THE FEW PROUD THINGS THAT STOCKTON HAS TO OFFER. Ask any fire department in the state, the same can be said of the stockton police department, many young cops want to work here to gain valuable experience. Be proud of stockton AJ, be embarrassed for your politicians not the hard working folks of the SFD and SPD.
jack, stockton has had the Food 4 Less engine for a while now and has not responded to a single call yet. i love stockton and SFD, we are going to have come to understanding that SFD is going to have 3-0 staffing and other cuts.
Wrong AJ, Stockton Firefighters have too much pride in what they do to go to three person engine companies. Us retirees and those who are gone would be very surprised if the SFD gave up pride for cash concessions, wont happen AJ, wont happen.
well jack i hope not but with cuts we are going to have to wait and see.
Aj it seems like you ARE hating on these guys. Your a fucking medic and supporting layoffs? What the hell is wrong with you? Support your brothers you fucking moron. I bet your a republican or maybe a “conservative” who hates liberals or some idiotic position right? What the hell is wrong with you? And why do you feel Stockton needs to cut police and fire when there are other options?
Cut politicians salaries, cut city hall employee secretary salaries, for christ sake cut other expenditures that dont involve hurting workers that RISK THEIR LIVES. Grow a fucking brain before you start arguing against the very people you work with you jackass.
Does anyone remember the other day when the Mayor, the City Manager and Council said not only were they happy that they have given up pay raises and enjoy living at 2007 wages, but that they would continue to do so for the next couple of years to help out the budget? Oh, that’s right, that was the Fire Department. Hey, is this Margie Huff that also made moronic, misinformed statements in her letter to the Stockton Record? The politicians have put you In this place. Get mad at them. Though you probably are related to, work for, or are one of them. You too AJ. You people regurgitate whatever you hear and don’t ever waiver from that script. My husband served his country in the Army got out and instead of continuing in management with a Fortune 500 company, which I now wish he had, he decided to be a firefighter. We had to move here from somewhere much happier away from family and friends and i gave up my $65k a year job to live here close to Stockton. Yes, it’s Lodi not Stockton but we spend all our money in Stockton. My husband wouldn’t move farther away because after the Quail Lakes Fire he wants to be close by in case of multiple alarm jobs in the city. Most people don’t live in the city they work in so the fact you people keep harping on that is laughable! When I was a professional in the Bay Area I never worked and lived in the same place, no one did so just let that go. Because when FF’s work it’s as if they do live there. They live in the Firehouse with the community at the very least 10 full days out of the month. The station has rats that have died in the vents, the fumes from the Engine permeates the inside and they breathe that in as well as the mold that is destroying the wall to their dorms. My husband has worked every Christmas for the last ten years and has only been home on Thanksgiving 2 times. He’s had to work on our kid’s birthday’s because he’s had to fill in on emergencies, a’ll of this and none of us complain because we’re FF families. Did you know by the that Stockton is already operating with less FF’s and stations!?! That’s where the overtime costs comes The ratio of people to FF’s in Stockton is almost 1,600 to 1, compared to Sacramento where it’s almost 900 to 1. And if they let 24 FF’s go then the number will rise. Your insurance premiums on your cars and homes will rise as well if they let go of more police and fire. Why aren’t you asking pertinent questions like why they built multiple million dollar yacht harbors and lured overpriced places like Paragarry’s, and knew it was gonna happen while they operate at a loss? Why is the Port getting Fire Protection for free? The Port is quite possibly the most dangerous place in Stockton with chemicals stored there that are a Haz Mat incident waiting to happen. You really want sub par people protecting you against those kind of incidents? My husband and my kids and I have made sacrifice after sacrifice so that my husband can be a FF for Stockton. When he leaves for work we don’t know if he’s coming back. And if he ever dies because he worked on a 3 man engine and he had no back up to go in and save some ungrateful citizen, I will have to lie to my kids and tell them daddy died doing a good thing. All along I have had faith that people appreciate what these guys do and now I know the truth. Self entitled, uninformed, miscreants all of you! It’s beyond insulting and hurtful to have you undermine what these people do for a living and how dangerous it is. The police and FF’s have my upmost respect cause they are out there doing jobs most if you are either too cowardly or selfish to do. If it was that easy or glamorous or even safe then everyone would do it. I believe Stockton cannot afford to lose police either and I think their billboards are facts that people just don’t want to deal with. It amazes me that my husband doesn’t blame the citizens or hold any harsh feelings. Because I do. You all make me sick! And if this happens i can’t wait to hear you all cryin’ about needing more fire and police! And God help the City of Stockton if anything happens to my husband as a result of unsafe practices because I will sue them for every penny they have hidden away. And God help you if you are ever in need of a public servant and they treat you with the same disregard you have for them! The city needs to remember people don’t move to cities, and businesses don’t open in places that don’t have adequate fire protection, police protection, and good education. Why don’t you all put more energy into getting officials that have more on the ball?
Amen Sylvia. Amen
Sylvia and Pops’ comments add to the enlightening shock of this article. I’ll say right off the bat that I am an ignorant coward when it comes to this, I know nothing of what is going on and I wouldn’t be a firefighter because I would be too afraid to risk my life; However, I would never cut the funding of anyone who is working PURELY for the purpose of keeping my ass alive! Cops, Docs, and FFs get my full support! I would cut the fuel costs of Arnold’s tax right off yacht before I cut a FF or hospital! Hell I wouldn’t mind taking a pay cut at my retail job to ensure public safety employees were well staffed and as stress free as possible. I am saddened to say that I am probably the only person who can say that, people will only think about themselves until a life or death situation in which they are saved from. Politicians just don’t give a shit until they lose money then that shit hits the fan and they must cut everyone else until they get all their money back with interest… FUCK YOU GREEDY BASTARDS
It seems to me personally the fact that the common person is basically no a whole lot worse off when compared to the current America administration although the united states government can get to execute by so many different rules. The govt will be able to take care of the national financial debt by generating currency and their particular negotiation methods are reinforced through the largest military services on earth.
I caught this article from facebook, and it was a FABULOUS article. Im glad someone is helping get the word out, because the Stockton Record is putting out such nonsense and anti-firefighter anti-cop language that its scary. 9-11 happens and firefighters get respect and financial help, then financial hardships come along that the government started themselves and firefighters are the first ones attacked!? Its sickening. Ill be giving this article to everyone I can. Keep fighting for our heroes!!!
city counsel obviously hasn’t had there house burn down. could save money by not sending everyone in the world out on a medical call. also save money if they ever heard of solar panels to supply power to city offices and buildings.
city doesn’t like library system (who’s overdue fees go into the city general fund) or the senior ciitizens. oh and we mustn’t forget the police department. has the counsel cutback on their perks yet?
Just like with doctors, when firefighters are needed/wanted, the public will promise them anything they want. When it comes time to pay, the public forgets that men and women risk their lives to save those who have called. I do not believe the firefighters are at fault for the monetary crisis in the city of Stockton. Cities everywhere are teetering on the brink of financial ruin. We need to buckle down, make cuts where we can without risking the lives of our citizens or those who protect them!
All the Fire Fighters and Police have my full support. We live in a community that needs them more now than ever. I think it’s stupid to cut the people that are here to help. For gods sake cut funding to the local government, libraries, graffiti eaters (let the businesses paint their own buildings and fine them if they don’t. This should be part of being a business owner.) Don’t take away public safety! These guys not only fight the fires in our community but they go on all kinds of calls. I cringe at the thought of one of my loved ones needing assistance and because of budget cuts the response time becomes a factor in a loved one living or dying. These men and women go out there every day risking their lives for ours, anyone that doesn’t support them should be ashamed!
I am so grateful for your post.Much thanks again. Awesome.
So you all know, several states plan to cut pensions.
Illinois raised its retirement age to 67, the highest of any state, and capped public pensions at $106,800 a year. Arizona, New York, Missouri and Mississippi will make people work more years to earn pensions. Virginia is requiring employees to pay into the state pension fund for the first time. New Jersey will not give anyone pension credit unless they work at least 32 hours a week.
In California, the governator has gone a different route, bargaining with the 12 unions that represent public employees. Last week four of them agreed to let the state cut its own contributions by requiring current workers to pay sharply more for the same pensions. The workers will contribute 10 percent of their pay, in some cases double the previous rate, to the state pension fund. Some other states are raising employee contributions as well, though less sharply.
Its already happening… People that work their asses off to protect our lives, our safety, and our property are getting royally fucked. And in their time of need, noone is standing up for them.
I would like to exchange links with your site thishotfire.com
Is this possible?
Everyday citizens have had to make major adjustments in their budgets over the past few years, but for some reason people providing service to the public are resistant to cutting their salaries in half like so many other people have (or worse).
The big question is: are people working in government agencies doing their jobs in order to serve others within the communities they live, or are they just doing it for the money? If you’ve got people who really care–it takes fewer people, and they might even do a better job.
The cities don’t have the money to waste like they did a few years ago, and there are a lot of people out of work that would be willing to take police and fire jobs at more affordable wages… fighting forest fires can be much more hazardous than urban firefighting and these fires are often fought by volunteers, and people working for minimum wage; and being a security guard holds greater risk than police, but they too often work for minimum wage.
More money doesn’t necessarily mean better service.
Alaric is typical of the uneducated private sector worker who says “suffer like us”…Instead Alaric you should be asking yourself who got us into this mess, and why dont private sector workers have the same or similar medical, retirement, etc as public workers. And dont forget that the average CEO of an american corp makes 900 times what us bottom feeders make. The rich are glad to see private sector vs public sector workers go after each other…dont fall into their trap, demand a decent medical plan and decent defined benefit retirement for all workers instead of your idiotic argument that we all should “SUFFER LIKE US”
Evidently I must have confused someone…
If there isn’t any money in the hands of the public it could be considered unreasonable to try to invent new ways to get money out of the public, rather than cut costs. If a person is intent upon serving the public then it shouldn’t be about how much they get paid — especially in an economy where there are people who will do the job for less, and perhaps do a better job with fewer people.
A big problem with the situation is that corporations, and government these days, both operate as False-Functioning Systems (Like a Dysfunctional System, but with a slightly different character and appearance). One of the characteristics of these types of organizations is that they produce waste. Even if very wasteful, and truly dysfunctional–they will do anything to perpetuate the system. They may be periodically fighting off chaos, or have some excuse to keep things going a certain way, and even find ways to cope that could be strange or disgusting. At some point the system may be completely broken, and still there will be reluctance to engage the only solution to such things–and that is to chop the thing up. One example, but not the only approach, could be to make deep cuts everywhere, or even abolish the city charter and do away with all the city workers if need be. The county can take over essential services at lower costs, and the service might be just as good.
That response cleared up a whole lot.
Alaric is completely unaware of past attempts to privatize firefighting, police work, and military. When firefighting attempted to privatize itself, firefighters were forced to let homes or property burn if the home or business did not carry a seal showing that they paid for fire protection… Police officers were forced to concentrate entirely on issuing tickets to generate revenue… They both failed miserably in the 50′s.
Military privatization still continues to this day, and is run purely on conflicts continuing in the world.
Your moronic idea of completly abandoning any semblance of a system is childish and simplistic beyond rationality. To completely disassemble a system would result in anarchy. Is the system perfect? No, its not, and thus the forefathers of America allow it to evolve and change as neccessary. Unfortunately the most financially endowed people in the world pay incredible amounts of money to lobbyists, and campaigns to protect their way of conducting their lives. To remove government would be to let the rich rule us, and I cant wait to see them continually brainwash the simpletons like yourself.
To believe we should cut funding to firefighters is irresponsible and cowardly. It is a cop out. Firefighters are trained physically and mentally to handle their profession. Uninformed persons such as yourself probably believe all there is to the job is fighting forest fires as your snide comment put it. But what do you think the turnover rate is after a rookie firefighter watchs a 3 year choke to death on a balloon, or is to be the one who has to clean up a dead childs body after he accidently shot himself, or shovel a human beings skull off the asphalt of a car accident? Let alone risk their life every day.
So yea, your right lets cut all services and fire everyone like Reagan did with the air traffic controller and pilots in the 80′s… Now pilots dont break $20,000 a year and air traffic controllers fall asleep on their shifts.
Read a fucking history book or learn a fact or two before you babble off your idiotic thoughts.